tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4134750084087927747.post7518424813558374161..comments2023-10-15T06:44:30.195-06:00Comments on Ode to Black Dougal: If the thief is rolling the dice he is already deadP_Armstronghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12374589162025099763noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4134750084087927747.post-48860219424357945772010-06-08T16:24:55.061-06:002010-06-08T16:24:55.061-06:00The way I always handled the Find Traps ability wa...The way I always handled the Find Traps ability was the implication that the player isn't as skilled or practiced as the character he's playing. Additionally there's only so much information a DM can give out at any one time unless the game is play by post. Therefore, the player can still take sensible precautions(throwing a sack full of rubble ahead of the group or what have you) and still make the Find Traps roll to be on the look out for things the player might not be on guard for but the character would know to look for or for things that would be obvious to the player, but the DM had to cut parts of his description in the interest of game pacing.2eDMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09562222394843621495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4134750084087927747.post-51306439283690185202010-05-17T13:22:38.555-06:002010-05-17T13:22:38.555-06:00Gygax may have been a kill-all-the-player-characte...Gygax may have been a kill-all-the-player-characters-you-can sadist, but I think he designed D&D to avoid the numbers-save-your-butt mentality of some people. He realized numbers and ie rolls were not what made the game fun. Why din't he start out all PCs with triple hit die to make them survive?<br /><br />1) Everything the PCs get so do NPCs.<br /><br />2) It taught that thinking and planning was the name of the game.<br /><br />DM: "You see sixteen orcs lounging around the temple door."<br /><br />Player: "We rush out and attack."<br /><br />Die are rolled: the PCs kill three orcs. The orcs kill all five PCs.<br /><br />Next game: <br /><br />DM: "You see sixteen orcs lounging around the temple door."<br /><br />Player: "Crap. What can we do to keep from being butchered?"<br /><br />And so the game starts centering around thinking, not die rolls and numbers... The thief could have been given skills where they always found traps and so on PCs could have been made super heroes from the start -- and players would have stopped thinking, gotten bored and quit...JD Nealhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04316006608698192630noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4134750084087927747.post-36056574365707956392010-05-08T12:33:56.906-06:002010-05-08T12:33:56.906-06:00@Red
Exactly!
@David
Thanks.@Red<br />Exactly!<br /><br />@David<br />Thanks.P_Armstronghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12374589162025099763noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4134750084087927747.post-36735854778730350572010-05-08T12:32:51.508-06:002010-05-08T12:32:51.508-06:00@JB,
Yes, that is a good point and falls exactly i...@JB,<br />Yes, that is a good point and falls exactly in with how I described the various B/X resolution systems in a previous post.<br /><br />By thinking of find traps as a saving throw I am more looking at the "last resort" or "crap I hope this saves me" aspect.P_Armstronghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12374589162025099763noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4134750084087927747.post-60316032081207110292010-05-08T12:30:36.047-06:002010-05-08T12:30:36.047-06:00@Daen
I was a little worried about how deadly expl...@Daen<br />I was a little worried about how deadly exploring the pyramid could be. After all the 2E thief only had a 30% in Find/Remove Traps. There was about 10 traps of which he would likely only find 3 just using his dice rolls.<br /><br />However, using the descriptive measures and some smart thinking they found all but 2 of them both of which caused some damage but never really threatened the party.P_Armstronghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12374589162025099763noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4134750084087927747.post-24778777460637394192010-05-08T12:27:06.366-06:002010-05-08T12:27:06.366-06:00@ TimmyD
That is a very interesting idea for an al...@ TimmyD<br />That is a very interesting idea for an alternate thief class.P_Armstronghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12374589162025099763noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4134750084087927747.post-50335681959481132152010-05-07T17:15:30.989-06:002010-05-07T17:15:30.989-06:00It's easy to become a slave to the rules to th...It's easy to become a slave to the rules to the point where actual roleplaying is sacrificed or neglected. This post is a breath of fresh air.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4134750084087927747.post-47559183338343223032010-05-07T15:56:00.837-06:002010-05-07T15:56:00.837-06:00There was a Dragonsfoot thread on perception and n...There was a Dragonsfoot thread on <a href="http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=42393" rel="nofollow">perception and notice checks</a>, and I see those just like you do for find/remove traps. They're saving throws. Most of the game is about your choices. Those choices - do you talk to the orc, do you use a 10' pole, did you plan and pack spikes, are much more what this game of exploration is about than the dice rolls. Isn't it?redbeardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04600098550347299095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4134750084087927747.post-5622704621900443072010-05-07T14:33:55.854-06:002010-05-07T14:33:55.854-06:00I think they mean something like this:
"I s...I think they mean something like this: <br /><br />"I stand to the side of the door, and throw the bag on the pressure plate on the floor"<br /><br />But the DM knows the pressure plate causes spears to fly out in the area around the door, so the Thief's safeguards didn't automatically save him. So now he rolls his Traps skill to avoid the trap. <br /><br />Alternatively, if the player isn't descriptive enough for the DM to give it to him automatically, he rolls. Example: <br /><br />"I stay off to the side of the garden path, sneaking between the wall and the shrubbery, so I stay off the gravel and out of the light. I watch the guard and move when he's looking the other way"<br /><br />Would be automatic success, while: <br /><br />"I move silently down the path"<br /><br />Would require a roll. <br /><br />Problem with this might be bogging down the game with the equivalent of "I look at the floor, walls, ceiling, doorway, and my fellow party members. What do I see, smell, hear? Are there air currents? What is the temperature? How moist is it?" When you enter every single room.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4134750084087927747.post-74977300616811977632010-05-07T14:00:44.219-06:002010-05-07T14:00:44.219-06:00But isn't "find traps" an active ski...But isn't "find traps" an active skill? And saving throws RE-active?JBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08532311924539491087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4134750084087927747.post-28862385597641342672010-05-07T09:26:55.412-06:002010-05-07T09:26:55.412-06:00I agree - there's the "common sense, ever...I agree - there's the "common sense, everybody should be doing this" way to find traps, then there's the game mechanic that saves his bacon if everything else fails...OR - if the player of the thief isn't nearly as old school as yours...then he needs to hope he rolls really well...Daen Ral Worldbuilderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08466580672856608560noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4134750084087927747.post-23809593821517263972010-05-07T09:03:29.226-06:002010-05-07T09:03:29.226-06:00Nice summary, and great visualization.
I agree wi...Nice summary, and great visualization.<br /><br />I agree with the concept. In fact, I believe that the ability should be:<br /> "Avoid Traps: +2 saving throw vs traps, increase by +1/2 levels"Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07588841039231426774noreply@blogger.com